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  1. FHIR Specification Feedback
  2. FHIR-40807

Physical Activity requiring different handling than SDOH assessments will make ingestion of data more complex

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    • Icon: Change Request Change Request
    • Resolution: Not Persuasive
    • Icon: Medium Medium
    • US Physical Activity (FHIR)
    • current
    • Patient Care
    • STU
    • Observation - Exercise Vital Sign Days per Week
    • Physical Activity Measures
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      This guide is fully aligned with the Gravity SDOH IG, in that it uses individual Observations to capture key assessment information.  The only difference is that the Physical Activity IG does not require support for the use of Questionnaire/QuestionnaireResponse and extraction of the Observations from a QuestionnaireResponse.  Doing so is certainly allowed.  However, given the small number of assessment questions and their stability, requiring Questionnaire seemed an unnecessary burden.
       
      The differences between the SDOH Assessment profile and the PA vital sign profiles are as follows:
      • SDOH requires an SDOH category, while PA requires a PA category  
      • SDOH binds Observation.code to an preferred value set of codes that don't include physical activity.  PA binds to a specific set of PA codes tied to national guidelines
      • SDOH allows 'Group' as a subject, which is not a use-case that makes sense for the physical activity space
      • SDOH does not constrain Observation.effective.  PA does, because the measures used are always date-specific and cannot apply to a period of time
      • SDOH doesn't constraint Observation.value.  PA does because all PA assement observations are quantities
         
        PA also defines specific profiles for each of our 4 assessment observations because there are a small (and finite) number.  SDOH cannot do this because the set of assessment observations in the SDOH space is much larger and is not fixed.  Therefore they must use spreadsheets to define what the Observation.value constraints are for each different LOINC code.
         
        In short, every PA vital sign observation will pass validation as an SDOH assessment if you choose to put an "SDOH" category on it.  And you can treat the physical activity IG as just additional entries in the SDOH spreadsheet, so long as you add the "physical activity" category.
         
        The physical activity category is important as it allows distinguishing which observations are appropriate for sharing with physical activity professionals from those that are not.
         
        After discussion, have come to the conclusion that, for physical activity, having a grouping observation is not essential and that requiring the use of one would add complexity to implementers that is unnecessary.  We can always revisit this question in the future if there proves to be a new use-case where standardized grouping would be helpful.
      Show
      This guide is fully aligned with the Gravity SDOH IG, in that it uses individual Observations to capture key assessment information.  The only difference is that the Physical Activity IG does not require support for the use of Questionnaire/QuestionnaireResponse and extraction of the Observations from a QuestionnaireResponse.  Doing so is certainly allowed .  However, given the small number of assessment questions and their stability, requiring Questionnaire seemed an unnecessary burden.   The differences between the SDOH Assessment profile and the PA vital sign profiles are as follows: SDOH requires an SDOH category, while PA requires a PA category   SDOH binds Observation.code to an preferred value set of codes that don't include physical activity.  PA binds to a specific set of PA codes tied to national guidelines SDOH allows 'Group' as a subject, which is not a use-case that makes sense for the physical activity space SDOH does not constrain Observation.effective.  PA does, because the measures used are always date-specific and cannot apply to a period of time SDOH doesn't constraint Observation.value.  PA does because all PA assement observations are quantities   PA also defines specific profiles for each of our 4 assessment observations because there are a small (and finite) number.  SDOH cannot do this because the set of assessment observations in the SDOH space is much larger and is not fixed.  Therefore they must use spreadsheets to define what the Observation.value constraints are for each different LOINC code.   In short, every PA vital sign observation will pass validation as an SDOH assessment if you choose to put an "SDOH" category on it.  And you can treat the physical activity IG as just additional entries in the SDOH spreadsheet, so long as you add the "physical activity" category.   The physical activity category is important as it allows distinguishing which observations are appropriate for sharing with physical activity professionals from those that are not.   After discussion, have come to the conclusion that, for physical activity, having a grouping observation is not essential and that requiring the use of one would add complexity to implementers that is unnecessary.  We can always revisit this question in the future if there proves to be a new use-case where standardized grouping would be helpful.
    • Lloyd McKenzie/Jay Lyle 6-0-1

    Description

      Several of the resources in this guide are for specific screening questions and LOINC codes. For example, each question in the Exercise Vital Sign assessment is its own resource. What is the reason for making these their own resources instead of using an existing resource such as an Observation Screening Response?

      Epic tracks physical activity as a social determinant of health domain, and we ask the Exercise Vital Sign as part of the full SDOH questionnaire. I don't expect all sites to consider this SDOH data, but some sources do include physical activity as a social determinant. To support sites that do document this as SDOH, it would be nice to have the Exercise Vital Sign resources more closely resemble the SDOH Screening Response resource (or more generally, FHIR resources for capturing assessment/questionnaire data). The fields each resource has are similar, but having to generate a different resource for one of our assessments will require some extra handling.

      I don't think the above is a dealbreaker, but I'm more troubled by this section of the Physical Activity Measures page:

      "While these two questions are logically part of a single overall 89574-8 observation, this guide does not require the capture or sharing higher-level grouping observations that link the answers to the two key questions."

      This will make it even more difficult to ingest this data if Epic plans to incorporate received physical activity vitals as SDOH. If there is no parent assessment that groups the two together, extra work will be required to look for two observations on the same date and to pair them up. If they were connected via a higher-level observation, we can simply direct that to SDOH views and have them generically display all child observations as we would with any other screening.

      Put more generically: FHIR already has resources that allow grouping the concept of an assessment that contains a series of related questions. Why is this guide separating those related questions into distinct resources? This will support organizations asking the questions as distinct fields but not organizations asking them as part of a more generic assessment structure.

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            mwisby@epic.com Matt Wisby
            Matt Wisby
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